Kaleidoscopic No. 30: Audrey d'Erneville
From Dakar with joy and exuberance.
Leonardo Bravo:
Hello, this is Leonardo Bravo and I'm doing an interview for Kaleidoscopic with Audrey d'Erneville. Audrey, we had the pleasure of working together at Otis a few years back on a design studio workshop with their MFA students there. You also presented to my class at UCLA a couple of years ago and through these I've been able to learn more about you and your practice as an artist and designer. So it's great to be in conversation for this and share more about the way you approach your work, your practice as a designer artist, and how you lift up your cultural history and cultural context in such vibrant ways.
Audrey d’Erneville:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Leonardo Bravo:
Right now I'm here in New York and you're in Dakar, Senegal, I believe?
Audrey d’Erneville:
Great. Yes, I'm in Dakar <laughs>.
Leonardo Bravo:
And you're based out of Dakar but you still spend time in LA?
Audrey d’Erneville:
I still do but I'm officially moving back to Dakar, more so as my base was still in LA and I was moving back and forth, but I've been spending so much more time here. I'm officially going back in May to leave my apartment in LA and then move back to Dakar as a base. So yeah, making the move back here and it's great. After 10 years <laughs>.
Leonardo Bravo:
So let's talk a bit about your own perspective about your design, artist practice and education practice.
Audrey d’Erneville:
So, yeah, as you mentioned, I'm a trained graphic designer, so I still work as an art director for clients on branding, digital campaign illustration, just everything, graphic design. And then for the past three years now I've been working as a fine artist. So for now, I mainly work in painting, sort of acrylic on canvas, and explore that. And my work primarily, especially in fine art centers around Senegalese culture, its culture and history. And I create from a place of nostalgia a lot, it's kind of what triggered my personal practice, but I like to represent my surroundings in the city that I grew up in, my culture. I think just the day-to-day life in what has been described as a pop art feel, is mostly in what I do. When I think about it, <laughs>, I have a hard time talking about what I do.
Leonardo Bravo:
It's interesting because my sense is that you take the vernacular imagery or symbols from this space of uplift and optimism about African culture. And specifically from your point of view, Senegalese culture. Can you speak about that sense of optimism that's imbued through your work, maybe it's through the colors, maybe through your compositions or even the imagery that you pull from?
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, there's a specific reason to why I started. I very much remember it was at the beginning of Covid in 2020 when we were all at home and had all the time in the world, and I was in a new apartment, and I would look for stuff to decorate my place with. So I was looking for prints and I remember just spending time online. I wanted something that reminded me of home of my culture so some sort of African print relating to this, and looking online I realized that first of all, there was nothing that quite related to what I wanted. So I wanted something colorful and modern. And you know, if you look up African work, it's usually just like giraffes, safaris, it's very brown and…
Leonardo Bravo:
The usual stereotypes.
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yeah. It's very brown and tonal and like, that's the shade. But to me it's not what I had in my mind. I was like, that's not at all what it is. And I remember at the time having that thought of, first of all, why am I looking for it when I can do it myself? When I grew up I’d always been inspired by Andy Warhol. When I was a teenager he was one of my biggest influences. And so in my very first painting back in Dakar, we have those buses and we call them rapid cars. And they're just like hand painted beautiful buses that are half blue and half yellow, usually painted that way. And they have full on flowers and letters and graphics. They also paint prayers on them. They're like rolling pieces of art, right?
Audrey d’Erneville:
They're very chaotic visually and they're very fast…they're crazy. But these in Dakar I remember because they're divided in blue at the top and there's a white bar in the middle and yellow at the bottom. To me, that reminds me of the Andy soup can and I can visually turn a bus into a can. And that would be my pop modern artwork. And that reminds me of home and it is colorful and it is modern. And that was the first painting I made. And from there just started making more images based on this sense of nostalgia, like the type candies that I would eat at home. And I had all these colorful memories to draw from.
Audrey d’Erneville:
And I always think that sometimes being away from a place makes you only remember the good parts of it, you know? So being in LA thinking about home in Senegal, I had all these colors and memories to think about, and the shoes we wear when where we were kids and the colors, like our taxis back home are black and yellow, the traditional outfits in Senegal are super colorful. Women here are known to be very colorful and like to dress elegantly and fashionable. So all of this imagery just popped in my head and that's what I started illustrating and drawing and needing to get out. <laughs>.
Leonardo Bravo:
I remember the film that you had my class watch at UCLA that dealt with Senegalese culture and history especially post colonial liberation movements and the First World Festival of Black Arts in Dakar in 1966. So powerful to get a sense of this historical moment and consciousness that brought together artists, dancers, poets and writers to affirm and promote black unity and culture. I feel like your work captures that sense of belief and optimism. Can you speak a little bit about that, maybe in terms of your own sense of connection to that history or that moment, or how that maybe informs the contemporary moment, your own contemporary reality?
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yeah, for sure. I remember very vividly when I was doing my master's at Otis and in one of the classes for a master's thesis, we had to do some research to what would be your practice as an artist. And during that research I landed on the artist Saki Mafundikwa from Zimbabwe who has researched and created a whole book on the African alphabet. But he had a very specific TED talk that honestly changed my life path, and what he was talking about was that he was from Zimbabwe and was working as a graphic designer in New York for his whole life, and then he moved back home and he opened the first graphic design school in Zimbabwe.
Audrey d’Erneville:
And his TED talk was talking about the fact that he feels like African designers are always looking outward for inspiration. So we're looking to Europe or to America to find inspiration for our work when basically what we have always been looking for is within us because Africa is the cradle of humankind's alphabet. It comes from West Africa which had very early on an alphabet that was very modern and was way ahead of anything happening outside of that. So this idea that we are the pioneers of everything and since this inspiration comes from us, so why do we keep looking outside for something that doesn't resonate with us? Doesn't speak to us. And having that grounding and understanding since I had studied graphic design in Paris and then in America so my work was fully inspired by the Bauhaus as well.
Leonardo Bravo:
And Western European ideologies in that sense.
Audrey d’Erneville:
With western graphic design, which is very modern and black and white and a type of essentialism that wasn't me. And I think that moment it clicked and it gave permission to myself to explore my culture as a source of inspiration, which I hadn't really done before. Also because those educational environments they don't really encourage you to tap into your own personal culture. And that's when I realized that culture is so powerful and can impact our work and life and it's something that connects us all. Because I think also as an artist, sometimes even as people, we feel like our experiences are our own and somewhat isolated, that I'm the only person experiencing that, or in my case I'm the only that wants to decorate my walls with Senegalese art.
Audrey d’Erneville:
And then in doing that, I realized that there's a community of people that have been looking for the same thing. And by me sharing it resonated with people beyond me. Also, Senegal specifically as a country was rebuilt after colonization through arts and culture. That was the main point that Senghor, the president after the colonization, who believed how culture it could help rebuild the country outside of a Eurocentric view. So yeah, culture and arts and design is so present in our society that I think everything clicked for me. And in my mind that's the sweet spot of what I wanna talk about, what feels like me and what resonates to people and what creates a community around that.
Leonardo Bravo:
Let's talk a little bit about a couple of individual series. I wanted to ask about the Dakar stamps series. I collected stamps as a young kid so when I started seeing these online they totally resonated. Can you talk about using this as a form, the stamp and the imagery that you've put together?
Audrey d’Erneville:
In general, I've always loved everything vintage, like visually. That's just where my heart is, like the seventies aesthetic within photography and fashion. And that's my sweet spot. I've always wanted to do stamps and that's kind of that moment when I feel I create best with set limitations. So my challenge was the limitation of I have to post every single day. Do I post it on Instagram....don't overthink it! And it's like unblocking something and having the stamp as a basic visual system. I like the format of it.
Audrey d’Erneville:
And I was inspired by vintage stamps from the colonies. When Senegal was still a French colony we had French stamps circulating about and those stamps always represented elements of culture. But again in my mind, and I work a lot on decolonizing art and culture and the visuals we have, those stamps represented a very Euro-centric view of Senegal and of Africa and the misrepresentation of my culture. So it was my idea to redo the stamps and to make what the modern Senegalese stamps would be like. And that was kind of it. I tried to represent every single thing that popped in my head from transport, to food we eat, to the people. And that was a very nostalgic process for me to draw something that feels like home. And it's funny you mentioned that because I feel like that out of all my projects, is the one that’s resonated with the most people. I think it's everybody's favorite. Like to this day, people still talk to about the stamps <laughs>.
Leonardo Bravo:
Let's talk about the exhibition you had in Atlanta, Tradition and Transmission. How did that come about? And because you're talking about very specific cultural histories, how does that translate and other people enter into the work? Your work is so inviting to begin with but I wanted to find out what was that experience like?
Audrey d’Erneville:
The Atlanta show it was very well received. I was a bit apprehensive because it was my first time in Atlanta, first of all, and my first show in the US. So I didn't know anyone there. I wasn't sure even what to expect or that people would even show up or so I thought. But there was a lot of people, surprisingly, that have been following me for a while on Instagram. And they came and were like, oh, I'm so happy you finally had a show here. So it shows you the power of social media. You think you're alone, but yes, people are watching and following. And the gallery owners that organized the show are a couple. He’s African, I don't remember exactly from what specific country, and she's German and they had lived in Dakar for a bit and now they're based in Atlanta. And they have this gallery centered around African artists. One of the things that they mentioned is that it was one of their first shows where there was a mix of cultures and representation. There were older people, younger, black, white. Atlanta isn't a city that mixes a lot between races, it's still very divided. So people showed up from everywhere even though most of them weren't really familiar with my work. But while we were there and discussing the works, I realized a lot of folks, I think because I represent a lot of specific elements, were very curious to what they represented.
Audrey d’Erneville:
So they would ask a lot of questions. What is this about? What is this person you painted? Who is this? And I realized the more I explained and the stories behind the works people truly resonated with it. Even though I would assume that, oh, if you're not from Senegal, why would you be interested in art about Senegal? But I feel that people can always connect something personal and of their own lives to the works they see even if it's not directly relating to them and to their specific culture. For example, there was one woman who lived in Atlanta, she's African American and I think she was half Senegalese, but had never been. And one of the paintings I made was of The Gaindes which is a ritual that we have here where people during celebrations dress up as lions which is our national animal.
Audrey d’Erneville:
They're frightening and imposing with very scary faces painted and they dance around as if possessed by the animal spirit. And so I did an illustration of that and a person came to and she asked, oh what does this represent? I talked to her and she told me, I'm a Leo and I'm Senegalese, and so she bought that piece because she said that was just made for her. So it was very interesting to see how I guess personal work still resonates outside of my specific culture and outside of the country. And people that you would think would have no attachment to a specific work there's always something they can relate to, something that comes from a culture or a story or just the meaning behind the piece or the emotions.
Leonardo Bravo:
That's interesting because on the one hand it speaks to the African diaspora across the Atlantic and how deeply those roots go as well. There's always the shifting of culture and adaptation in other geographies, but also the roots and culture are woven so deeply and it speaks in such powerful ways. There's also the aesthetic value, the way you use color or forms and shapes and patterns and how people naturally respond to that.
Leonardo Bravo:
I wanted to ask you about inspirations.You mentioned earlier about going to school both in Paris and Otis in LA. What were some of your own inspirations along the way, either through your upbringing, family, education, and how you might have experienced the arts and culture along the way?
Audrey d’Erneville:
I've always been inspired by a lot of things. And I always struggle to respond to this question because based on the time period and where I'm at I might be inspired by something completely new. But honestly color is something that inspires me directly. And so that's why I like being in different cities that have distinct color palettes. Being in LA there's an energy there that's captured through colors - like the guys on the streets selling fruits and umbrella on the fruit cart that has specific colors. Those are details related to cities and colors that stay in my head. And then that triggers a completely different thought.
Leonardo Bravo:
Also wanted to ask what's giving you joy right now? And maybe just because we're living in such urgent moments, what's giving you pause?
Audrey d’Erneville:
Honestly, I think right now the moment of pause and the joy are intertwined. I felt at the beginning of my practice, especially in the fine arts space, I've always created for a show or for a theme or for something. So I think at the beginning part of my art practice I felt like I was an artist but really creating as a graphic designer such as you have a client, or there's a brief, there's a theme that informs your project. So part of me didn't feel like I had the right approach to the fine art process because I felt like a machine recreating things. I would illustrate first and then do the whole thing and then put it on paint and then recreate. In a way I felt that I couldn't relate to how an artist approaches their process in more intuitive ways or just painting from the heart.
Audrey d’Erneville:
But especially since last year after I lost my grandmother at the beginning of last year and I didn't create for the whole year, I think I was in a deeply conscious state, a mix of sadness and just very uninspired. I think for that year, I was in a space of just not creating. And so now from that pause, I'm in a space where I'm excited to create personal work again. And I think for the first time I’m not thinking of the type and the colors and the designs ahead of time, but I feel like the emotions are here and ready to come out which I don't think I've felt like that before. So I'm inspired by what I'm feeling I'd say on the inside now and then creating from a place of sharing my own stories and just letting it flow. Yeah. <laughs>, if that makes sense.
Leonardo Bravo:
It makes perfect sense because I think having that period of grief and loss and also reflection allows you sometimes to find new openings towards something or recognize something different as well.
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yeah. I think for sure. The inspiration came from the pause for sure. That's where I'm excited to lean into more art practices. I think my work is always personal but trying to orient it as less of a design approach and trying to separate from working as a graphic designer and embracing more of just going with no expectations and creating from a place where you don't know what the outcome is. Which is very new for me and that's something that I'm excited about.
Leonardo Bravo:
And speaking of the process, you work with acrylics and gouache? It looks to be pretty labor intensive the way you lay down the colors and the imagery? How does that process work for you?
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yes. I work in acrylics and it's pretty labor intensive because I think again, that's my graphic designer brain. I'm very detail oriented. I will measure things out.
Leonardo Bravo:
You have to get it just right. <laughs>. It's the Bauhaus in you!
Audrey d’Erneville:
It is and that's the one thing I can't shake no matter how free I wanna paint. I have to do a straight line. It has to be measured from the bottom and have to make sure that line is straight <laughs>. So in that sense, it's pretty labor intensive and also I still like having typography in my paintings. That’s something that has to be measured out and letters have to be spaced the right way. I still paint like a graphic designer. My eye has to see symmetry, it has to be organized. There has to be a layout <laughs>. Yeah, for sure, there's a hierarchy and there's perfection in the work.
Leonardo Bravo:
It's interesting to watch your Instagram because you so fully embrace a sense of color, like with the outfits you wear and your style. There's a complete sense of aesthetics that you bring forward. Can you talk a little bit about that? It must be a very conscious decisions that you bring to that.
Audrey d’Erneville:
But you know what, it's actually not <laughs>.
Audrey d’Erneville:
I remember it was a couple years ago that someone on Instagram that I didn't even know, sent me a DM and commented, you dress exactly like your artwork. And that was the first time that I took a step back and I was like, oh, <laughs>, do I <laughs>? And then I started putting it together and even sometimes I think, well which one inspires the other?
Audrey d’Erneville:
And now it's more of a conscious thing. I think now that it's being pointed out, I look at myself and I can see, let's say right now, I'm very into cobalt blue specifically and a bright orange. And I see that in my work and it's applied to how I dress. Like I just got this new little pair of round blue glasses. So I think now that I'm aware of it I agree with that. But at first for sure it wasn't intentional. I didn't even realize it was happening <laughs>. But that's great and funny that happens a lot when people see things from the outside and see it as…
Leonardo Bravo:
A very complete sense of aesthetics and expression, you know? <laughs>.
Leonardo Bravo:
And then finally, what are some words of advice you would give to your younger self and maybe to designers or artists coming up?
Audrey d’Erneville:
I think one advice that I would give to my younger self and specifically to young women, young creative women, is the idea of don't limit yourself. Like, don't limit yourself because you think someone's gonna tell you no or that something is being limited to you. That's why I said specifically women because I think we do that, especially women of color, where we limit ourselves first because we think the world is just not gonna take it. So we don't even try. I know to me, it showed for example, in wanting to be an artist. It truthfully was never even in my mind because I didn't have models or representations, especially being from an African family, I was the first creative in my family.
Audrey d’Erneville:
The space of graphic design was as much as I could push it with my family because it was still still seen as a viable job. But I never dared or allowed myself to dream of being a fine artist because it felt just so crazy. So I wonder what would've happened if from the beginning I said, I wanna be a fine artist and I went to art school and then took that route. So I'd really say, don't let the world tell you no and don't limit yourself first. Dare to dream whatever dream however crazy it might be. You know, they say if it doesn't scare you, you're not dreaming big enough.
Leonardo Bravo:
That's great purpose and intention. It also makes me think that you in a way are becoming a role model for younger creatives coming up. You embody a vision and you’re a role model for that sense of purpose of what it can be like for a young creative from Africa working in a larger context and what you can achieve with that. And the possibilities are endless, limitless.
Audrey d’Erneville:
For sure. And I try because I do so many different things and a lot of times people are like, oh, what do you do? Because one day, here's a T-shirt I'm selling and then it's this other project or commission. But there's a part of me that's well, I have two little sisters and I wanna show them that you can do it all. You don't have to, but if you want to you can go make a T-shirt and then to make paintings and then to nail art, whatever it can be. I feel that people would always try to put you in a box especially as creatives. And so to me, like, yeah tomorrow maybe I'll start doing nail art and I'll stop painting <laughs>. So I really like showing them that you can do all those things and even if you're not the best at it, explore and then have fun with being creative. We have the gift to be creative. Let's go as crazy as we can.
Leonardo Bravo:
Absolutely. You started talking about a new body of work, but is that connected to exhibitions or new projects that are coming up for you?
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yeah, I'm currently, as I'm working on my move to Dakar, I'm building out my studio. So my home finally is an actual art studio. I'm excited to do a deep dive into my fine art practice and do more paintings. We have the Art Biennale happening in Dakar and every two years it's the biggest art fair in Africa. So there's lots of events happening at that time. And I have a few exhibitions for paintings connected to it and I have one project where I get to do some programming while also doing some work and really thinking through what type of creative practice I wanna put out there. So it's just, just putting my energy into being an artist, telling myself I'm an artist and,
Leonardo Bravo:
Committing yourself to it!
Audrey d’Erneville:
Committing myself to that. Less logos, more paintings. <laughs>.
Leonardo Bravo:
Well you gotta come out to New York at some point. Bring your work here.
Audrey d’Erneville:
Yes. I need to come. I haven't been in a while. I need to come to New York and would love to show in New York, even LA. I'm like, LA, New York, it'll happen, right?
Leonardo Bravo:
Yes, it will.
Audrey d’Erneville:
And New York is so close to Senegal and even culturally.
Leonardo Bravo:
Absolutely, and like you said the diasporic lines run so strong.
Leonardo Bravo:
Well, Audrey, thank you so much. This is wonderful and great to catch up with you. Next time you're in New York, come visit at MoMA. Great to keep up with you and again, congratulations on your journey as an artist.
Audrey d’Erneville:
Thank you, thank you for everything. Very excited to come see you on that side. And thank you for your time and questions.
*all images courtesy of the artist
IG: @audrey.dlle